Scrolling Transcript...

(SQP-Ep.001 ~ Collaborating With Life in a Very Different Kind of Way ~ w. Marina Galan)
Editor Note: Minor edits have been made from the original audio recording for easier reading.

(opening intro music begins)

Intro Text: Welcome to the spiritual intelligence podcast, Awakening your inner power with Daniel Martinez Stahl, where we will explore, discover and integrate different aspects of our spiritual and human nature, so that we can all thrive and live life with more grace and ease, instead of struggle.

(Intro music fades away)

Daniel: Welcome to the Spiritual Intelligence Podcast. With me today is Marina Galan. She is a personal friend of mine, a colleague and also one of my mentors. I wanted to have Marina as part of this inaugural session because of the understanding that she has and the conversations that we have had.

It is an honor to have you with us Marina, and I would love to ask you to introduce yourself briefly, just to give us a little background about who you are, what you do, you can go into how people can contact you at the end, if you would like to share that, but just a brief introduction would be great.

Marina: OK, yeah. Hi! Well, thank you, first of all, for having me, for inviting me. I feel really honored as well. (chuckles) I am from Mexico. I live in Queretaro, with my three sons. They are 16, 13 and 12. So, I guess you could say I have my hands full, but I have so much fun with them in life. And I work with people and groups and organizations in different parts of the world.

What I do is I help them understand how their minds work, so that they can access the natural resources that are available to them and that we mostly ignore are there, because of a misunderstanding of how the mind operates.

Daniel: Beautiful. Thank you.

Marina: There you go, thank you. (both chuckle)

Daniel: So, part of the reason that I wanted to have you on this inaugural discussion — this beginning of the podcast — is specifically around the idea of inner power. Now, this is a term that people in all different kinds of conversations will use. But I would love to get an understanding of what that means to you specifically, and how that is utilized within your work and within your personal life.

Marina: Okay. That’s a very small question. (both laugh)

Daniel: I know we're starting small. (continue laughing) We'll work up later.

Marina: Right, so. (pause) Human beings, we inevitably create identity around our experiences. And as we create identity, we unknowingly limit ourselves and our possibilities to that one particular identity. So, if I think of myself as shy, for example, not only do I begin to experience life from the perspective of a shy person, but every single one of my interactions will stem from that understanding of myself.

Now, because the creation of identity is inevitable. We are always constantly limiting ourselves in all sorts of different ways. But when we understand that identity is a creation and not necessarily a fixed territory in which we must operate, we can actually shed identity and free ourselves of that. We discover that we are — I guess a good term to use would be — identity fluid. Right?

So, we can become pretty much anything or anyone we want to be, at any given moment, and so all the qualities that a person would need in order to deal with a certain circumstance or situation, at any given moment, are alive within us. We just do not access them because of that imitation of how we think of ourselves.

Allowing people — helping people — understand how to free themselves of those limitations of identity, allows them to access all those possibilities. Like every single human possibility is yours at any given moment; in terms of experience and in terms of the qualities with which you approach anything. So, I'll give you an example. Every single way a rainy day or a cloudy day has been experienced by a human being in the history of humanity, or will be experienced in the future, is potentially mine.

But if I create “identity” around, "oh, I get depressed, on cloudy days or on rainy days," then I am forcing myself to experience a rainy or cloudy day exactly that way. And, when I discover that I do not need to do that, and I learn how to free myself of those restraints, well, I discover that I am absolutely free to experience a rainy day or a cloudy day in a myriad of ways. And not only that, but I do not even need to set the tone — I can just expose myself to the rainy day or the cloudy day and discover a completely new experience that I didn't even know was possible for me today.

So, accessing your inner power, does not mean there is a power to be developed inside us. But there is a power that is ultimately freedom. Freedom of experience and freedom of, again, what I was saying, as many qualities as we need, right? So, if I need to speak in public or record a podcast today (chuckles) and I'm not feeling particularly extroverted. I don't need to follow that thought and create identity around it. I can let go of that thought immediately and just bring other qualities that I would need in order to make a public appearance or record a podcast with you.

And so, all the possibilities are mine at any given moment and that is huge, Daniel. That is enormous power. When we discover ourselves free to not only experience, but to bring the qualities that are needed in that moment, we enter a different kind of relationship with life. We enter a completely different kind of collaboration with life, because we allow ourselves to be informed by life, but we also access every single natural resource that is in us, in order to collaborate with that particular circumstance that is informing us in the moment.

Daniel: Beautiful. I love that.

Marina: I'm glad you do. (chuckles)

Daniel: Yeah. (pause) Now, I do have a question. For people that are listening that have never been exposed to anything like this or believe that this is not something they can achieve. You specifically mentioned the ability of letting go of a thought that comes to us, so that you can allow yourself, and expose yourself to come with different resources that are appropriate in the moment; that would have been limited by that thought, that would have been restricted or identified with that thought. How does one let go, if you will, of a thought?

Marina: Hah (quietly)

Daniel: Another small question. (both laughing)

Marina: Another small question. Well, you know, when I first started exploring this understanding, I would have teachers tell me, "Well, you just let go," and I would ask, "well how?" "You just let go." And nobody was able to explain it to me, so I don't know if I will be able to explain this to you, but I can try. (both begin laughing)

So for me, letting something go, is actually letting something be. But letting something be exactly what it is, and not turn it into something else. So, understanding the nature of thought, understanding that it is temporary, that it is transient, that it holds no power, that it is arbitrary. That it cannot, by its own very nature, be true or false. It's just thought, it's just a perspective, it's just a point of view in the moment.

Understanding that that's all it is, allows you to give it its true worth and so as you give a thought its true value, its true worth, it cannot restrain you, it cannot limit you. It's just thought, you know? I think of myself as wonderful at least five times a day, but I think of myself as horrible at least fifteen times. (laughing) You know? Which one is true? None. They're just thoughts. They are just possible points of view that my mind suggests in the moment — that doesn’t make them true.

You know, It's like hearing the sound of a bell. I can hear the sound of a bell. That doesn't mean it's mine. That doesn't mean I need to carry it around with me. So I can have the thoughts, I can hear the thoughts, I can experience the thoughts. But, I don't need to turn them into truth. I don't need to turn them into belief. I don't need to turn them into limitations.

So, yeah, I have to give a presentation in front of five hundred people. Oh my God! There is thinking of fear and insecurity and inadequacy. Of course there is. I just don't have to take it seriously. So, I see thought for what it is, and I allow it to be what it is. But by allowing it to be what it is, I take away the power from it to limit me. And so, if letting go sounds too difficult, how about holding it lighter? (laughs) Hold a thought lighter, lightly, and see what happens. Question it.

I was having a conversation this morning with a friend of mine and we were exploring the question, "What if?" Fill in the blanks, right? So what if thoughts really don't mean anything? Just allow yourself to play with that. We are natural born players. We make believe all the time when we are little. Why not make believe now? That is what is at the heart of every single exploration in the world. That is at the heart of, "What if we're not the center of the universe?" "What if the planet is round?" What if...? Every single question we ask ourselves, that has taken us beyond ourselves or the known limitations of our worlds, has been a what if. What if there's more, what if it really works this way? Well, what if a thought is just a thought? What if it doesn't need to constrain you? And by asking that question you are already lightening up. You are already holding it lightly, or more lightly.

Daniel: Baby steps.

Marina: That's the only kind of steps we have. (laughing)

Daniel: Yeah, “baby steps” is what comes to mind when you talk about holding something lightly. As being, and it's also about being patient with ourselves and being kind to ourselves. I find, because it's very easy, I found in my own experience, to give myself a hard time because I'm taking a thought too seriously, or because I can’t let go of it, and so I give myself more angst around it. And so there’s a part of being kind to myself and being understanding of myself. It is part of our natural nature to experience and to explore all different kinds of experiences, and sometimes that experience is exactly that. Being caught up in whatever experience we’re having. And, to allow and to surrender, there's a lot of words around it. But I love the idea of, of taking something lightly, and it's also about taking ourselves lightly as well. It’s not just taking a thought lightly,

Marina: Especially ourselves. (both begin laughing) Especially ourselves, Daniel, because we are so tough on ourselves. But you see, you are having a thought, and then you are having a thought that is being mean to yourself about holding that thought. It's just a huge chain of thoughts that you were taking seriously, right? So, judgement on yourself is a thought. It is. Isn't a judgement a thought? That's all it is. It's a temporary point of view. Right?

So what is "I"? When I want to speak of me, Marina? “I” is just a point of view. That's it. That's all we are. That's all "I" am, a point of view. But it's not fixed. Be with it (said very lightly, almost imperceptibly as Daniel speaks again).

Daniel: This is a beautiful segway for something else that I'd like to explore. Another small question, if I may. (with laughter)

Marina: OK, baby questions, baby steps.

Daniel: So, the title of this podcast is spiritual intelligence. And what I'd like to explore is a little bit more about what is our — what is behind the "I"? What is our spiritual nature? What is it that we truly are? Your thoughts.

Marina: Well, isn't that the question, right?

Daniel: (laughing) Small question, like I said.

Marina: I don't know that there is one definite answer to that, Daniel. But, what has made sense to me recently has been looking back, looking to the origin of, the source of. I heard someone say, "If you are standing between a lion and a dog, and you throw a stick, the dog will chase the stick, the lion will turn around to see where the stick came from." (laughs) Again, it's like, looking back to the origin of. So, ok, there is thought, what is the origin of thought? What is the source of thought?

Now, when you ask, "What am I?" And you start going back, going to the origin of "I", it seems to me that you got to a point in which you see the birth of "I", as a concept. I remember when my kids were growing up and I remember very distinctly the moment in which they realized there was an "I", and before that, there was no "I", there was just presence. There was just “experience” happening. But there was no sense of "me". Now, as soon as there is a sense of "me", every experience happens to that me or through that me. So, there is a "me" who is sad or there is a "me" who is happy. Before that me, there is just sadness being experienced, or happiness being experienced. And it has a sense of the non-personal. It has a sense of a — just a universal experience of how something can be.

To me, that is one of the ways in which we can begin to explore what consciousness actually is. So, for me, the way things look right now, consciousness is this field of possibility in which something can be experienced. Right? So, agh, it's so difficult to use words, right? But, if I had to use the word, it would be like a — in a passive state — it's an active field of possibility that is ready to receive any experience.

Now, in order for an experience to be in consciousness, there needs to be thought. So the interaction of thought and consciousness creates experience. Thought could be the active force, if you want to see it that way, or the masculine force of the expression of it and consciousness can be the passive or the feminine. And these are just words to describe. It doesn't mean that it is masculine or that it is feminine, but, it seems to be like an active expression of life and a passive expression of life, and when they interact, experience happens.

Now, are we Consciousness? Or are we Thought? Again, these are just manifestations of energy. So, what is...what is the origin of consciousness and what is the origin of thought? And you inevitably go back to — well, there is the potential energy that can manifest in these both ways, in these two ways, as consciousness or as thought. That is what in the understanding that I share with people is called Mind. So, what are we? We are an expression of Mind. We are an expression of that primordial energy that is called life. And in this particular expression that we call a human being, there is consciousness and there is thought happening, and hence, there is experience.

Now, we can identify with the experience, we can identify with a thought, or can identify with a consciousness. But, ultimately when you keep looking back, to the origin and the source of it all, there is just Mind. There is just that (exhales), raw energy of possibility, that in us, is manifested in human form.

Daniel: A term that I like to use for Mind is also the energy of life. The intelligent spiritual energy behind things. There's different terms that people can use to relate Mind to their own experience.

Marina: And we constantly do: life, energy, the universe, God, nature. But, it is, it is ineffable, it is unexplainable and it cannot be put into words, because it is before anything, before even "I". So, pretending that the "I" can understand what is before "I" is a little bit presumptuous. (begin laughing) Now, how do we understand? How can, how can the creation, understand the creator? It cannot be contained in the creation and yet, the creation is an expression of the creator.

And so, we get frustrated because we really want to. (laughing) And so, it's, it's "I" trying to understand. To understand it all, to understand the universe, to understand God, to understand Mind. If you look at it in terms of totality, you can see that totality (pause) — if you think about it in terms of totality, you can see that totality, by its own nature, must include separation. Because otherwise, it would not be totality, it would not be wholeness. So, how does it play out in a universe in which you have totality? But totality needs to include separation, but it immediately grows and integrates separation, so that it can be totality. (pauses) So how can...?

Daniel: Paradox (speaking over Marina by mistake)

Marina: Right. So how, so you come to a point in which, "oh, separation is part of totality, but it wants to experience totality and understand totality." Well, it can't. It is already part of totality, but it cannot understand it because it is separation. (laughs) But the nature of separation is totality. Right? So, yeah. It is the world of paradox. Small questions.

Daniel: hm

Marina: There you go.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. So, bringing this back. (speaking with a lot of pauses between the words) How does...understanding...this nature of you — experience — of experience itself, that you are experiencing...how does that...come back to help you in your day-to-day life?

Marina: Thank you for that question. (pause) Thank you for that question, Daniel, because it seems to me that when we go too far out into spirituality, we miss the practicality. We really do. And, and, we are really looking for a spirituality that can help us in the practicality of life. (big relaxing sigh)

Well, I guess knowing all this, understanding this, the possibility that it brings in a very practical way day-to-day life, is don't take your thinking so seriously, hold it lightly. Don't take your experience so seriously. You can hold it lightly. Like, no matter what you are thinking, no matter what you are experiencing, this is not you, this is just temporary. This is just what is happening, because you were here.

And so, your relationship with thought changes, your relationship with your experience changes and because you were no longer identified with it, you don't need to control it, you don't need to manage it, you don't need to change it, into anything. It seems to me that we human beings are terrified of having certain types of experiences, and we go out of our way trying to avoid those experiences, those feelings, those thoughts, and we get into so much trouble by trying to avoid them.

So, when you discover that you are actually free to feel anything and think anything, and experience everything. without being defined by it, without being limited by it, without being (sighs) controlled by it. You really find a different type of freedom in your life, and you discover that everybody is as free as you, and there is huge joy for that, and at the same time there is huge compassion for others. Because you see how they are creating their misery and their suffering, just in the exact same way that you are creating it. Innocently, and it is so unnecessary.

But, because you are going to do it too, you know, in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, you can't really judge them, and you cannot really judge yourself, because it's...it's part of the design. You are going to experience, and it will look very real. You are going to think, and it will look very real. So, there is enormous compassion and there is enormous freedom at the same time, which to me are two of the most important components of everyday life, to actually have a good life. Freedom and compassion. Those two will take you to wonderful, amazing, beautiful places. Freedom and compassion.

Daniel: Can you speak a little bit more about how to quote unquote, "utilize" freedom and compassion? Because I imagine that, as someone that's listening to this is going to say to themselves, "Cool, I can use freedom and compassion to help live a better life. How do I do that? What do I do?"

Marina: Well, again, I guess it's a little bit like, how do you let go? No? How to utilize freedom and compassion? First of all, you need to realize that you “are” freedom and compassion. When you realize that you are ultimately, undeniably free, and that the natural result of understanding that is compassion. It is not something you quote unquote "do". You don't do freedom and compassion, you become — literally — freedom and compassion by realizing that you are freedom and compassion. And these are precisely the playgrounds in which you can move. The more understanding you have, the freer you understand yourself and the more compassionate you discover you are. And so, inevitably, these change your relationship to others, to yourself, to life. To other expressions of life, as well.

So, quote unquote, "utilizing" freedom and compassion can only be done by exploring freedom and compassion. That's the only way to do it. You explore your freedom, all its dimensions. You explore your compassion, all its dimensions. So it would seem like there is a “to do” there, somewhere. But you see, you can never do what you are. How do you “do” human? You can't “do” human, you are. So the whole process is just an exploration of what already is. There is no goal, there is nothing to attain, there is nothing to do. It's an exploration of what already is. So you don't utilize freedom, you explore freedom. You realize freedom.

Daniel: For somebody that is currently struggling with their life or facing challenges in their life right now, where it's harder for them to find that sense of freedom within themselves, or compassion within themselves. What would be a good way for them to start going in that direction?

Marina: Stop going in the direction you are going now. (pause)

Daniel: Simple. Point blank. (both begin laughing)

Marina: Well, if you want to start moving in this direction, you need to stop moving in the other direction. Right? If I am looking out the window and I am looking at a tree, but I want to look at something else, I kind of need to stop looking at the tree. I'm not going to see the sky if I keep looking at the tree. Right? So, instead of exploring, quote unquote "exploring" difficulty, explore freedom. Instead of exploring anger, explore compassion. I mean, it's quite simple. (both begin laughing again) It really is.

Like, I did an experiment a few months back, Daniel, because as you know, I don't take anything for granted and I needed to see it for myself. So, I did an experiment a few months back in which I decided that for three days, I would only focus on the negative, and then for three days, I would only focus on the positive. And, oh my God. The discoveries I made by doing that. So, just pay attention to what you are not paying attention to now. Pay attention to the positive. Pay attention to freedom. Pay attention to (long sigh), how transient and temporary thought is. Pay attention to the fact that thought does not define you. Pay attention to Consciousness. Pay attention to the process and not the content. Pay attention to the fact that you think, not to what you think about. Pay attention to the fact that you are conscious, not to the content of your consciousness.

Daniel: Consciousness is a term that is used by many people...

Marina: Yes, sir.

Daniel: ...and in many different ways.

Marina: Yes, sir.

Daniel: Of all of those suggestions and ideas, directions for us to look towards, looking towards what consciousness is brings up a lot of questions. It comes back to, "what is consciousness?" And, let me get it started, and I want to see your own thoughts. But for me, what that means is, being present with what is. Without, well, even with — I was going to say, without getting caught up in thoughts, but even if I'm getting caught up in thoughts, that is what is happening. So, that is being present to what is. So, it kind of comes back to that idea of presence, and then digging it deeper into what is presence? And for me, that is — what I relate to when somebody talks about, looking more towards Consciousness or looking to understand consciousness or being more conscious — it brings me to that idea of presence. And again, words are very difficult to describe, but that's the closest that I've found lately, that I like, is being present. So I’d love to get your thoughts on that.

Marina: Yeah, well (clears throat and pauses). Presence for me...is a space...for me to relax in. Again, it would look like presence can be a very intense thing to do. You know, like, be present, see, hear. No, presence is just awareness. Like, what do you need in order to be aware? Nothing. Awareness is a given. Like, you are always aware. There has not been a single moment in your life when you have not been aware. Not one.

And some people tell you, "when you are asleep, you are not aware." That is actually not true because you hear when you are asleep — if a noise can wake you up. Someone touching you can wake you up, a movement can wake you up. So, of course you are aware, physically speaking. But you are also aware, you know, when you're dreaming. There is a teacher that says that sleep is not the absence of awareness, it is the awareness of absence. And that changes everything, because when you see that awareness — consciousness — is a given, you cannot escape it.

Daniel: You cannot not be it.

Marina: You cannot not be it, right? (chuckles briefly) So, you see, life is so incredibly intelligent, like that intelligence you were talking about, that what it needs of you, which is awareness, there is no way you cannot do it. (chuckles briefly) There is no way you can subtract yourself from it. So, awareness is — is being. With or without your consent. (with a little laughter)

Now, here's the thing. You can focus on something, in your awareness, or you can just fall back into your awareness, and see what is. Right? So when you say, "without getting lost in thought," and you say, "well, actually, that's not true because that is what is happening, and that is what is, and I can be present to that." But see the difference, Daniel. You went from being lost in thought, to being aware of thought.

Daniel: That you are lost in.

Marina: That's a completely different type of awareness. So, in a sense, it's a wider awareness, if you want to see it, which is exactly what we mean when we say what consciousness is, not consciousness does. So, it's going from the content, to the nature of — going to the origin of. So you let go of the content and you fall back into the nature of — into the mechanics of. And so you are actually present to what is going on. Which is, thinking is going on. And that allows you to hold the content of thinking lightly.

Daniel: To have a different relationship to it.

Marina: Exactly, which frees you of the content.

Daniel: And as we understand the innocent ways in which we get caught up in the content, it awakens our compassion for ourselves and others.

Marina: Ta da! (both laugh) There you go. It's so simple.

Daniel: I have a friend of mine that, (clears throat) when I share these things with him, he says, "I try, I try, I try, but it's so hard!" (both laugh)

Marina: Yeah, well...

Daniel: It's, and it's...the other day, yesterday, I was talking to my mother about these things. And she said, "you know, I just, I just don't see it, I just don't see it, I just don't see it," and I was encouraging her to recognize that she sees, she has seen more than she's giving herself credit for, and that in noticing what she's seen, as opposed to focusing on what she hasn't seen, it opens her up to see more. It aligns her with the flow of things, as opposed to the resistance of things.

Marina: Yeah. Well, what you're saying is really interesting cuz, in a way, it would seem like she has thought, possibly, to create identity out of, "I am not seeing." You see, and at the same time, she could change her focus to, "I am that, which sees, when it sees," and your friend, when he says, "I try, I try but it's really hard," well if he understood that we only experience what we think, and if he's thinking it's hard, well...he's experiencing it as hard. Of course.

But that is how innocent it is. That is how innocently we get caught up in the content. If we think of it as a very lonngggg (stretching out the word), strenuous process, well that's how you are going to experience it. And that is why, again, hold whatever you are thinking about — whatever you are thinking lightly. Because, what if it's not difficult? What if it's not hard? What if you have seen? And that immediately stops you and opens up a new possibility.

Daniel: Something that I would love for you to also expand upon is something that I feel some people might take away from this, which is, "So, I need to be conscious of my thinking and I need to change my thinking."

Marina: No...

Daniel: "I need to think differently." (Marina chuckles lightly) "So, I shouldn't think about...that things are difficult. I should think that things are easy." And so, it's very easy to misunderstand that. So, I would love for you to speak about that.

Marina: Yeah. (very quietly) Yeah, the intellect always wants a recipe. Always wants it broken down in steps. So, "What do I need to do, how do I do it?" And because this is an exploration of what already is, of what already is, there is no no right or wrong way to do it. That there is not a “to do” to be done. So, it is not, "oh, I need to think differently," it is not even, "I need to be aware of the process of my thinking." Hold it lightly. Fall into awareness and let it do what it does.

We were saying awareness is happening with or without your consent, it's kind of happening with or without you. (chuckles) Right? So, you can just relax and let awareness do its thing. It will do for you, what you cannot do for you. Which is freedom. So, do not turn this into a “to do”. It's useless.

Allow yourself to see beyond that. Beyond a recipe. What already is. Allow yourself to rest, in this moment, as it is. As it is, outside and inside, and if there is thought, there is thought, and if there is judgement, there is judgement, and if there is experience, there is experience. It's OK. We're going beyond all that, into just being. You cannot do what you are. (pauses) Make sense?

Daniel: Makes sense.

Marina: OK, I'm glad.

Daniel: So, I'm curious as the hour is approaching, if there's anything in specific that you would like to share. Anything that comes to mind. Could be something that we've spoken about or could be something completely different.

Marina: You know, there is (pauses) distilled wisdom in our feelings. And so allow, allowing oneself to be guided by our feelings, as if they were a compass. Follow joy. Deep, quiet, tranquil joy. It will not take you to where you're not supposed to be. (chuckles) And now, allow that quiet joy to guide your thinking.

Daniel: Can you speak a little bit more about the wisdom within feelings and how to use them as a compass?

Marina: Well, feelings are the real-time reflection of how we are using our thinking, or how seriously we are taking our thinking, or how lost we are getting in the content. So, (pause) a nice relaxed feeling informs you that you are not taking it too seriously. You are not getting caught up in the content. You are not necessarily getting lost. Or, even if that is happening, you are looking at it from a different perspective. So, when you are looking at thought, even if thought is “caught up” in that precise moment, you are going from being lost in it, to seeing it, and that immediately lightens up the feeling.

So, following a good feeling is what allows you to surf your mental life, in a beautiful way.

Daniel: And for people that are experiencing, a heavy, a dark, a troubled experience, where they find it difficult to notice that peaceful feeling or that peaceful space, how — again the how — how can they connect to that space within themselves to recognize it more easily?

Marina: Well, when you spoke about how you sometimes get lost and you can give yourself a hard time about it, you spoke about the possibility of being kind to yourself and being compassionate to yourself as well. So, when we are going through a difficult moment, there is no use in judging ourselves for that. We need to find a way to be kind ourselves, to be compassionate towards ourselves. So, you see, as soon as you find that kindness towards yourself, you already are in kindness.

Daniel: You are already shifting your experience.

Marina: Because you are allowing it to be. You are letting it go. You are allowing it to be what it is, from a space of non-judgment and allowance, which is the same to say a space of love. When you are loving yourself, even if lost, you are already in love, you are already less lost.

Daniel: Hm, well, thank you for everything that we've shared.

Marina: Thank you, Daniel. It's been a pleasure sharing with you and exploring.

Daniel: Yeah, is there something that you would like to finish with? Is there a way people can reach out to you?

Marina: Well, people can always find me. (both laughing) MarinaGalan.com would be the place.

Daniel: Perfect, thank you very much.

Marina: Thank you Daniel, it's been a pleasure playing.

Daniel: Yeah, I look forward to the next time that we play together.

Marina: Me too. Take care.

Daniel: Ok, bye bye.

(closing outro music begins)

Closing text: Thank you for listening. Hopefully, you've heard something new that invites you to reflect, to go within, and deepen your own understanding of life, and of our universal experience. If you enjoyed this conversation, please follow the podcast series on your favorite listening app, and share this episode with others that you feel would enjoy it as well. Until next time, may we all soar with inspiration, explore with passion and live with love. ❤️❤️❤️

(outro music fades away)